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Message from vitesse at Sunday, 14-Nov-10 02:19:47 GMT
Here a small video I made with bad LW propagation (only becasue I had time to do so.)
I'm wondering if this is really DLR kulture at 177khz.
This was made using the 50khz lsb software trick using my HF node. So far I have never been able to lock on this signal.
I have a doubt that this could be possible but dream DRM only see a signal on this frequency on the entire 0-500khz range.
I'm wondering if this is really DLR kulture at 177khz.
This was made using the 50khz lsb software trick using my HF node. So far I have never been able to lock on this signal.
I have a doubt that this could be possible but dream DRM only see a signal on this frequency on the entire 0-500khz range.
Message from Calico at Sunday, 14-Nov-10 11:09:56 GMT
Sounds hopeful, and hopefully we will see more friends uploading received DX and/or interesting transmissions! :-)
Please, where can we see this video, what's the link ? Will be out today and tomorrow, but hope I can check when we come back home tonight
73
Tim
Please, where can we see this video, what's the link ? Will be out today and tomorrow, but hope I can check when we come back home tonight
73
Tim
Message from vitesse at Sunday, 14-Nov-10 23:28:46 GMT
Message from Calico at Monday, 15-Nov-10 20:39:25 GMT
Thanks for uploading the video!
This time it wasn't DLR unfortunately, as the waveform needs to be like an inverted capital U ( Π ) and all the traffic lights need to be green, after all you would have heard the audio.
For example's sake, I just uploaded a video of what HPT AIR KHAMPUR (India) looks like as I received here in UK about 1/2 hour ago, see comments under the video (with audio) for details:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHpOFnf4pus (maximize for FULL VIDEO + AUDIO)
But hopefully with careful, slow aiming of your antenna towards Germany, if propagation helps, you should get it, if they are still on the air. (drm.org schedule is not always religiously adhered to)
Looking forward to more uploads of recordings/videos ! :-)
73
Tim
P.S. By the way, if anyone else wants to try and decode DRM without IF modification, here is the comprehensive tutorial:
http://w2dtc.com/w2dtc-drm-page.htm
This time it wasn't DLR unfortunately, as the waveform needs to be like an inverted capital U ( Π ) and all the traffic lights need to be green, after all you would have heard the audio.
For example's sake, I just uploaded a video of what HPT AIR KHAMPUR (India) looks like as I received here in UK about 1/2 hour ago, see comments under the video (with audio) for details:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHpOFnf4pus (maximize for FULL VIDEO + AUDIO)
But hopefully with careful, slow aiming of your antenna towards Germany, if propagation helps, you should get it, if they are still on the air. (drm.org schedule is not always religiously adhered to)
Looking forward to more uploads of recordings/videos ! :-)
73
Tim
P.S. By the way, if anyone else wants to try and decode DRM without IF modification, here is the comprehensive tutorial:
http://w2dtc.com/w2dtc-drm-page.htm
Message from vitesse at Monday, 15-Nov-10 21:45:20 GMT
AS for the green light the signal is definitivly too low for them to go all green.
I'M amazed you lock on the signal at only 12.5db of SNR. Here I need to get at least 19-20db to lock on the sinal. But the receiver is only a PCR-1000.
Should try to record it with sound next time. but it's complicated with Microsoft RDP setup to record sound too.
I'M amazed you lock on the signal at only 12.5db of SNR. Here I need to get at least 19-20db to lock on the sinal. But the receiver is only a PCR-1000.
Should try to record it with sound next time. but it's complicated with Microsoft RDP setup to record sound too.
Message from vitesse at Tuesday, 16-Nov-10 21:52:04 GMT
Here a small video demonstrating proper reception from my node, using The disco Palace signal
I need at least 19db of SNR to be able to lock on it.
BTW this is something everyone can do on GT with Rovigo DRM testing or Saint-jean HF node.
Here the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmZsWp2Y8ao
Last edited by vitesse at Tuesday, 16-Nov-10 21:57:37 UTC
I need at least 19db of SNR to be able to lock on it.
BTW this is something everyone can do on GT with Rovigo DRM testing or Saint-jean HF node.
Here the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmZsWp2Y8ao
Last edited by vitesse at Tuesday, 16-Nov-10 21:57:37 UTC
Message from Calico at Wednesday, 17-Nov-10 03:19:48 GMT
At work, so can't enjoy your video till I get back home.
From my days of getting DRM with my unmodified PCR-1000 back a few years ago, I can remember that better (lower) SNR figures could be achieved by:
1) Using the Icom's built in attenuator (as well as a preselector and/or step
attenuator) PCR-1000s can't handle high gain antennas, so benefit from attenuation. Even the Perseus performs more linearly in the presence of strong signals with attenuation used. This morning by using -30dB, got better decoding for example of RTL Radio DRM on 1440 kHz MW.
2) Lowering the mixer settings of the soundcard, lower volume levels helped more with lower SNRs, soundcards have dynamic range issues as well.
3) Usually at lower bands where there is more band noise, we can get solid lock with higher SNR, but that's difficult for dx DRM. Higher frequencies, because quieter, will facilitate good streams as there is much lower band noise even if signal is very low. For example with only S-7 signal, Voice of Russia's SNR here was 20 dB.
4)Apart from phase noise and selectivity issues of receiving equipment, SNR can also depend on what robustness algorithm is chosen by broadcaster; emphasis may be put on quality of content (hi-fi vs lo-fi) or resilience to propagation factors e.g. for a long path transmission.
5)SW DSP filtering has helped me in the past with an unmodified PCR1k especially when there were close-by interfering stations; PowerSDR worked well for me on DRM as well as any other mode.
However, it's been a couple of years I think, since I used to "receive" DRM in this way and at least for me, lock wouldn't last very long, typically up to 3-4 minutes.
Things smoothened with the PCR-1000 much more after I modified the radio using Sat-Schneider's IF output components. (http://www.sat-schneider.de/DRM/DRM.htm)
Earlier, I've uploaded several more DRM video+audio recordings on YouTube, the most enjoyable, I suppose, are the Stereo ones of Langenberg, DRM on Medium Waves, 1593, RTL on 1440 kHz to follow too.
Can be found by doing a YouTube search for "DorsetRadio" and there about 5-6 videos already uploaded, wonderful audio, parametric Stereo, use headphones if possible to check audio quality maybe also against IBOC ?
Last edited by Calico at Wednesday, 17-Nov-10 19:04:17 UTC
From my days of getting DRM with my unmodified PCR-1000 back a few years ago, I can remember that better (lower) SNR figures could be achieved by:
1) Using the Icom's built in attenuator (as well as a preselector and/or step
attenuator) PCR-1000s can't handle high gain antennas, so benefit from attenuation. Even the Perseus performs more linearly in the presence of strong signals with attenuation used. This morning by using -30dB, got better decoding for example of RTL Radio DRM on 1440 kHz MW.
2) Lowering the mixer settings of the soundcard, lower volume levels helped more with lower SNRs, soundcards have dynamic range issues as well.
3) Usually at lower bands where there is more band noise, we can get solid lock with higher SNR, but that's difficult for dx DRM. Higher frequencies, because quieter, will facilitate good streams as there is much lower band noise even if signal is very low. For example with only S-7 signal, Voice of Russia's SNR here was 20 dB.
4)Apart from phase noise and selectivity issues of receiving equipment, SNR can also depend on what robustness algorithm is chosen by broadcaster; emphasis may be put on quality of content (hi-fi vs lo-fi) or resilience to propagation factors e.g. for a long path transmission.
5)SW DSP filtering has helped me in the past with an unmodified PCR1k especially when there were close-by interfering stations; PowerSDR worked well for me on DRM as well as any other mode.
However, it's been a couple of years I think, since I used to "receive" DRM in this way and at least for me, lock wouldn't last very long, typically up to 3-4 minutes.
Things smoothened with the PCR-1000 much more after I modified the radio using Sat-Schneider's IF output components. (http://www.sat-schneider.de/DRM/DRM.htm)
Earlier, I've uploaded several more DRM video+audio recordings on YouTube, the most enjoyable, I suppose, are the Stereo ones of Langenberg, DRM on Medium Waves, 1593, RTL on 1440 kHz to follow too.
Can be found by doing a YouTube search for "DorsetRadio" and there about 5-6 videos already uploaded, wonderful audio, parametric Stereo, use headphones if possible to check audio quality maybe also against IBOC ?
Last edited by Calico at Wednesday, 17-Nov-10 19:04:17 UTC
Message from Calico at Wednesday, 17-Nov-10 20:10:55 GMT
At home, and saw the DiscoPalace video on YouTube, artistic too ;-)
So that we can help GT users interested in decoding DRM understand Ken's (W2DTC) method, could you upload a video showing both the receiver and the DReaM decoder all at the same time, side by side?
Say if possible from the moment that you initially start to tune a DRM frequency, while simultaneously seeing the DReaM traffic lights light up, and the DRM main window next to the modern interface?
I would do it, if I my original PCR-1000 DRM radio wasn't packed away. Still, I will try to demo the entire process with what I have here, showing all programs running on the same screen in real time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEqD_o62wE4
If you could upload such a video showing simultaneously the whole process, it would be of great help for any of our users who would like to try DRM.
P.S.
1)It was lucky that although you had a signal drop of -20 dB e.g. between 06" and 08" of your video (from S9 + 20 to S-9) the DRM stream didn't appear to have any breakups?
2)For a Stereo DRM transmission on Medium Waves, WDR Langenberg, on 1593 kHz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNDsgMmUKqI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
3)RTL on 1440 kHz is even better, notice the -30dB attenuation, top Left.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ThbJe1DRCk
So that we can help GT users interested in decoding DRM understand Ken's (W2DTC) method, could you upload a video showing both the receiver and the DReaM decoder all at the same time, side by side?
Say if possible from the moment that you initially start to tune a DRM frequency, while simultaneously seeing the DReaM traffic lights light up, and the DRM main window next to the modern interface?
I would do it, if I my original PCR-1000 DRM radio wasn't packed away. Still, I will try to demo the entire process with what I have here, showing all programs running on the same screen in real time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEqD_o62wE4
If you could upload such a video showing simultaneously the whole process, it would be of great help for any of our users who would like to try DRM.
P.S.
1)It was lucky that although you had a signal drop of -20 dB e.g. between 06" and 08" of your video (from S9 + 20 to S-9) the DRM stream didn't appear to have any breakups?
2)For a Stereo DRM transmission on Medium Waves, WDR Langenberg, on 1593 kHz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNDsgMmUKqI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
3)RTL on 1440 kHz is even better, notice the -30dB attenuation, top Left.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ThbJe1DRCk
Message from vitesse at Wednesday, 17-Nov-10 20:25:24 GMT
Great Idea, will do such a video. probably tomorrow as DRM transmission only occur in daytime in North America. I have send an email to TDP Radio about that.
In fact, the audio is not in sync with the video, but no drop out occurred.
I was recoding the server "screen" with Microsoft Remote Desktop Protocol. This is what I use to remotely control the server as I this is not inside the house and I have no screen and keyboard on it.
Thanks for your video will go to listen it this evening. I have a bad solder in my HIFI amplifier and it as goers wild in oscilation, so need to repair that before being able to listen anything with my computer.
Last edited by vitesse at Wednesday, 17-Nov-10 20:26:36 UTC
In fact, the audio is not in sync with the video, but no drop out occurred.
I was recoding the server "screen" with Microsoft Remote Desktop Protocol. This is what I use to remotely control the server as I this is not inside the house and I have no screen and keyboard on it.
Thanks for your video will go to listen it this evening. I have a bad solder in my HIFI amplifier and it as goers wild in oscilation, so need to repair that before being able to listen anything with my computer.
Last edited by vitesse at Wednesday, 17-Nov-10 20:26:36 UTC
Message from Calico at Friday, 26-Nov-10 11:49:34 GMT
Till you find some time to get a good signal (hopefully) for the tutorial, here is some material to keep the idea warm ;-)
It's the 177 kHz Long Waves DRM, three samples, one normal reception, and two more difficult cases with lots of interference around target DRM station.
DKultur, is multiplex station, one signal, two audio streams and on top of that multimedia info as well.
Multiplex examples (audio 0:56" & 01:08" and multimedia information), some good music too, "Shake yr money maker" and "Respect yourself".
Transmissions in all three videos are meant for local rather than dx reception, but it was lucky there was adequate signal.
Easy copy:
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ9ZEtmjuHs
Hardcore DRM:
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrHp3G0OMzw
3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVl8ju7Tqcg (even more difficult)
(Edit: Last video, shortened to 36")
Last edited by Calico at Friday, 26-Nov-10 19:59:03 UTC
It's the 177 kHz Long Waves DRM, three samples, one normal reception, and two more difficult cases with lots of interference around target DRM station.
DKultur, is multiplex station, one signal, two audio streams and on top of that multimedia info as well.
Multiplex examples (audio 0:56" & 01:08" and multimedia information), some good music too, "Shake yr money maker" and "Respect yourself".
Transmissions in all three videos are meant for local rather than dx reception, but it was lucky there was adequate signal.
Easy copy:
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ9ZEtmjuHs
Hardcore DRM:
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrHp3G0OMzw
3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVl8ju7Tqcg (even more difficult)
(Edit: Last video, shortened to 36")
Last edited by Calico at Friday, 26-Nov-10 19:59:03 UTC
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