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Message from Calico at Sunday, 19-Jul-09 07:25:24 GMT
Hi m1ctk,
Please can you advise what frequency (ies), and settings you used and what time? Any info provided will help me provide useful feedback.
73 es gd drm dx !
Calico/Tim
Please can you advise what frequency (ies), and settings you used and what time? Any info provided will help me provide useful feedback.
73 es gd drm dx !
Calico/Tim
Message from gypsy at Sunday, 19-Jul-09 08:57:20 GMT
Hi
The following digital signals were received -
HELL on 10.141 on Rimini and Ireland RX at 16.45 UTC
Olivia 250 and Olivia 500 also on 10.141 at around 16.20 on Ireland and Rimini Rx.
Olivia 1000 on 14.105 on Rimini RX today at 08.15 UTC
I have got screen shots of how HELL Mode looks like, if any one is interested I can e mail the same to them.
Regards
Gypsy
The following digital signals were received -
HELL on 10.141 on Rimini and Ireland RX at 16.45 UTC
Olivia 250 and Olivia 500 also on 10.141 at around 16.20 on Ireland and Rimini Rx.
Olivia 1000 on 14.105 on Rimini RX today at 08.15 UTC
I have got screen shots of how HELL Mode looks like, if any one is interested I can e mail the same to them.
Regards
Gypsy
Message from m1ctk_dave at Sunday, 19-Jul-09 09:24:00 GMT
HI TimI was was just trying some of the MW freqs for DRM like 1611 1573 etc but when I clicked om the DRM button nothing changed like it was'nt operational in the s/w etc ?
Message from Calico at Sunday, 19-Jul-09 21:24:52 GMT
Hi Dave/m1ctk,
Thanks for being specific re. frequencies. As for the time I take it, it must have been about 21.00 hours.
Regarding both 1611 and 1593 (not 1573), the problem is as follows:
Both frequencies are from too far away for DRM (eg Santa Maria di Galeria is over 1500 km away) and both are swamped by closeby interference ( 1584 sounds like an AM Spanish Station messing up 1593 and 1611 is interfered by two at least AM stations.)
Unfortunately DRM is susceptible to close by interference let alone co-channel interference. Choice of error correction algorithm robustness versus quality of audio, also comes in here, that's beyond our control.
To make things even worse, these two frequencies are (predictably) only receivable in the UK after sunset, when D-layer goes.
However, when this happens, DRM becomes really limited because rather than "surface wave propagation" ( i object to the term "ground wave", since it doesn't cover propagation over the biggest part of the planet which is sea) we get to have sky wave propagation, hence not only DRM dx comes in, but all unwanted AM signals too.
Despite DRM having a vast coverage during the day-much bigger than AM-,its coverage is many times worse during the night, because of the above. Polarization losses issues also come in of course when it comes to surface waves prop/tion.
To sum up, DRM is clearly superior to AM both regarding quality of audio and area coverage during the day, but at night DRM's performance re geographical coverage worsens dramatically, specifically on Medium Waves.
On top of that? Add the lousy front end performance of PCR 1000s and lousy filter shape and lousy phase noise, you get the picture ....What is SNR > 22 dB with SDR , is barely SNR 12 dB with Icom PCR1000. And these two freqs, were not receivable with SDR rx either, at least in my QTH, not because of phase noise or filter skirts, this time but becuase of the RF jungle on MW at nights..
However, all in life being a compromise, PCR1000 still performs OK on HF DRM, eg, Chile and Equador were coming in beautifully the other night on PCR1000 DRM, and that's why this radio made it to Global Tuners as offering DRM among other modes.
Hope this helps and I welcome your findings/comments.
73 es gd (DRM) dx,
Tim / Dorset Radio
Last edited by Calico at Monday, 20-Jul-09 11:25:27 UTC
Thanks for being specific re. frequencies. As for the time I take it, it must have been about 21.00 hours.
Regarding both 1611 and 1593 (not 1573), the problem is as follows:
Both frequencies are from too far away for DRM (eg Santa Maria di Galeria is over 1500 km away) and both are swamped by closeby interference ( 1584 sounds like an AM Spanish Station messing up 1593 and 1611 is interfered by two at least AM stations.)
Unfortunately DRM is susceptible to close by interference let alone co-channel interference. Choice of error correction algorithm robustness versus quality of audio, also comes in here, that's beyond our control.
To make things even worse, these two frequencies are (predictably) only receivable in the UK after sunset, when D-layer goes.
However, when this happens, DRM becomes really limited because rather than "surface wave propagation" ( i object to the term "ground wave", since it doesn't cover propagation over the biggest part of the planet which is sea) we get to have sky wave propagation, hence not only DRM dx comes in, but all unwanted AM signals too.
Despite DRM having a vast coverage during the day-much bigger than AM-,its coverage is many times worse during the night, because of the above. Polarization losses issues also come in of course when it comes to surface waves prop/tion.
To sum up, DRM is clearly superior to AM both regarding quality of audio and area coverage during the day, but at night DRM's performance re geographical coverage worsens dramatically, specifically on Medium Waves.
On top of that? Add the lousy front end performance of PCR 1000s and lousy filter shape and lousy phase noise, you get the picture ....What is SNR > 22 dB with SDR , is barely SNR 12 dB with Icom PCR1000. And these two freqs, were not receivable with SDR rx either, at least in my QTH, not because of phase noise or filter skirts, this time but becuase of the RF jungle on MW at nights..
However, all in life being a compromise, PCR1000 still performs OK on HF DRM, eg, Chile and Equador were coming in beautifully the other night on PCR1000 DRM, and that's why this radio made it to Global Tuners as offering DRM among other modes.
Hope this helps and I welcome your findings/comments.
73 es gd (DRM) dx,
Tim / Dorset Radio
Last edited by Calico at Monday, 20-Jul-09 11:25:27 UTC
Message from Calico at Monday, 20-Jul-09 14:15:26 GMT
Recommended DRM frequencies AND TIMES for Dorset Radio DRM (Modern Interface ONLY)
*** Please DO NOT use Unreal Media Player for DRM !***
A DRM Log has now been created where one can find and TUNE what DRM frequencies have been (and can be)received. More frequencies will be added soon.
Under the Modern Interface (the green looking virtual Radio), click on "Receiver Bandguides" and then from the Drop Down menu, click on "*DRM"
The *DRM log will appear and there you can find information not only on what frequencies have been successfully resolved on DRM but mainly what time and with what signal quality! It's then only a matter of choosing the right frequency for the right time (in UTC ), then "click 'n tune".
IMPORTANT:
The saved frequencies on *DRM log, will tune the radio in the needed mode and filter value. However, you will STILL NEED to click on the DRM button, to start resolving DRM.
Also please TURN OFF Unreal Media Player if you have it installed and use Medium Quality Audio!
For example a good frequency to test DRM is 13.810 MHz between 10-14 UTC. (tested and has been consistently a good frequency, currenlty, July 2009)
===============================================================================================
If you are familiar with DRM and want to tune independently of the *DRM log you can enter any frequency
Again these settings:
1) If your browser has the Unreal Media Plug in, please turn it off and turn
the usual Flash Audio (e.g. Medium quality)
2) Enter the frequency as usual. Observe the S-meter.
Is the DRM frequency indeed active?
If so, you will hear a characteristic hissing sound as well ! If you don't hear a clear hiss then either frequency is not active or there is co channel interference.
This would suggest using some other frequency.
3) Choose AM mode and 15 kHz, sometimes 50 kHz can be used too if no interference is present.
4) Click on DRM button (located above WFM), and if all is as it should be, DRM will start flowing in about 10 seconds ( you will see "DRM ON" at Local Chat box).
Experiment with filter bandwidths and use Attenuator if signal is strong to protect the front end from overloading.
Last but not least! If you want to tune back to analogue frequencies, dont forget to turn DRM off, by clicking on DRM button again ( you will see "DRM Off) at Local Chat box.
=================================================================================================
Once more, pay close attention to remarks about Time and signal quality as these will give you a good indication of whether this frequency is likely to be useable or not.
13.810 MHz seems a very promising DRM frequency between 10-14.00 UTC that I have repeatedly monitored with Dorset Radio DRM, yielding a reasonable SNR of > 15 dB.
At present, DRM on Medium Wave frequencies after sunset is not recommnended, due to sky-wave co-channel interference.
Please do add your findings/queries at http://www.globaltuners.com/forum/thread.php?tid=243
De Dorset Radio DRM / Calico
73 and good radio-times.
PS: *** Please DO NOT use Unreal Media Player for DRM ***
Last edited by Calico at Tuesday, 21-Jul-09 14:24:17 UTC
*** Please DO NOT use Unreal Media Player for DRM !***
A DRM Log has now been created where one can find and TUNE what DRM frequencies have been (and can be)received. More frequencies will be added soon.
Under the Modern Interface (the green looking virtual Radio), click on "Receiver Bandguides" and then from the Drop Down menu, click on "*DRM"
The *DRM log will appear and there you can find information not only on what frequencies have been successfully resolved on DRM but mainly what time and with what signal quality! It's then only a matter of choosing the right frequency for the right time (in UTC ), then "click 'n tune".
IMPORTANT:
The saved frequencies on *DRM log, will tune the radio in the needed mode and filter value. However, you will STILL NEED to click on the DRM button, to start resolving DRM.
Also please TURN OFF Unreal Media Player if you have it installed and use Medium Quality Audio!
For example a good frequency to test DRM is 13.810 MHz between 10-14 UTC. (tested and has been consistently a good frequency, currenlty, July 2009)
===============================================================================================
If you are familiar with DRM and want to tune independently of the *DRM log you can enter any frequency
Again these settings:
1) If your browser has the Unreal Media Plug in, please turn it off and turn
the usual Flash Audio (e.g. Medium quality)
2) Enter the frequency as usual. Observe the S-meter.
Is the DRM frequency indeed active?
If so, you will hear a characteristic hissing sound as well ! If you don't hear a clear hiss then either frequency is not active or there is co channel interference.
This would suggest using some other frequency.
3) Choose AM mode and 15 kHz, sometimes 50 kHz can be used too if no interference is present.
4) Click on DRM button (located above WFM), and if all is as it should be, DRM will start flowing in about 10 seconds ( you will see "DRM ON" at Local Chat box).
Experiment with filter bandwidths and use Attenuator if signal is strong to protect the front end from overloading.
Last but not least! If you want to tune back to analogue frequencies, dont forget to turn DRM off, by clicking on DRM button again ( you will see "DRM Off) at Local Chat box.
=================================================================================================
Once more, pay close attention to remarks about Time and signal quality as these will give you a good indication of whether this frequency is likely to be useable or not.
13.810 MHz seems a very promising DRM frequency between 10-14.00 UTC that I have repeatedly monitored with Dorset Radio DRM, yielding a reasonable SNR of > 15 dB.
At present, DRM on Medium Wave frequencies after sunset is not recommnended, due to sky-wave co-channel interference.
Please do add your findings/queries at http://www.globaltuners.com/forum/thread.php?tid=243
De Dorset Radio DRM / Calico
73 and good radio-times.
PS: *** Please DO NOT use Unreal Media Player for DRM ***
Last edited by Calico at Tuesday, 21-Jul-09 14:24:17 UTC
Message from oldtimer at Monday, 20-Jul-09 14:48:02 GMT
Don't forget that other non amateur HF modes can be successfully decoded.
For example:
DGPS
NAVTEX
DSC
SITOR-A/B
HFDL
ALE
Good decoding of the above modes is possible on the Northern Ireland HF-DX node (and others of course). Best to use the CW position for the narrow modes (Sitor, Navtex, DSC, DGPS) this has a narrow filter (400Hz) selected, USB for ALE and HFDL.
My favourite software:
DSCDecoder - http://www.coaa.co.uk/dscdecoder.htm
PC-HFDL - http://www.chbrain.dircon.co.uk/
PC-ALE - http://www.hflink.com/
HF Digital band-guide added.
Have fun.
Alan
Last edited by oldtimer at Monday, 20-Jul-09 18:35:40 UTC
For example:
DGPS
NAVTEX
DSC
SITOR-A/B
HFDL
ALE
Good decoding of the above modes is possible on the Northern Ireland HF-DX node (and others of course). Best to use the CW position for the narrow modes (Sitor, Navtex, DSC, DGPS) this has a narrow filter (400Hz) selected, USB for ALE and HFDL.
My favourite software:
DSCDecoder - http://www.coaa.co.uk/dscdecoder.htm
PC-HFDL - http://www.chbrain.dircon.co.uk/
PC-ALE - http://www.hflink.com/
HF Digital band-guide added.
Have fun.
Alan
Last edited by oldtimer at Monday, 20-Jul-09 18:35:40 UTC
Message from gypsy at Tuesday, 21-Jul-09 08:23:07 GMT
Hi Alan
Would it be possible to have some frequencies of the above modes, along with what mode is on which frequency.
Regards Gypsy
Would it be possible to have some frequencies of the above modes, along with what mode is on which frequency.
Regards Gypsy
Message from Calico at Thursday, 23-Jul-09 08:30:35 GMT
Hi Alan/Rohit
Tried the PC-HFDL on USB on one of the many active frequencies, 11.348 MHz (more HF freqs to be found at http://www.qsl.net/g4hbt/cars.htm) for HF Acars, it was fun, other than the constant wet blanket of buying ever one more piece of software before the program stops working every 2 minutes or so. ;)
Rohit, take a look at a sample of what was decoded from ACARS ( Aircraft Communications Addressing & Reporting System) with this program on 11.348 at 8.26 UTC:
----------------------------------------------------------[23/07/2009 09:26]
[MPDU 08:26:19 AIR 9A SLOT 1 300 BPS ]
Nr LPDUs = 1 Ground station ID CANARIAS - SPAIN NOT SYNCHED
Aircraft ID 9A
Slots Requested medium = 0 Low = 0
Max Bit rate 1800 bps U(R) = 0 UR(R)vect = 0
[LPDU UNNUMBERED DATA FM AIR 9A TO GND]
[HFNPDU PERFORMANCE]
08:26:12 UTC Flight ID = AT0787 LAT 36 56 11 N LON 4 25 40 W
Performance version 1
Flight Leg 189
GS CANARIAS - SPAIN
SYNCHED TO UTC
Frequency 11348.0(KHz)
Previous Leg lost count 9
Current Leg lost count 0
Previous Leg Number of sec disabled 4836
Current Leg Number of sec disabled 0
Number of MPDUS received O.K
1800 bps = 0
1200 bps = 0
600 bps = 33
300 bps = 171
Number of MPDUS received in Error
1800 bps = 0
1200 bps = 0
600 bps = 5
300 bps = 3
Number of Squitters received O.K = 224
Number of Squitters received in Error = 2
Number of MPDUS transmitted
1800 bps = 0
1200 bps = 1
600 bps = 0
300 bps = 23
Number of MPDUS received first time
1800 bps = 0
1200 bps = 1
600 bps = 0
300 bps = 22
Reason for last frequency change = No Change Since Last PD HFNPDU
Thanks for the ideas re. digimodes Alan, now our mission is to find el-freebo programmes ;)
73
Tim
Tried the PC-HFDL on USB on one of the many active frequencies, 11.348 MHz (more HF freqs to be found at http://www.qsl.net/g4hbt/cars.htm) for HF Acars, it was fun, other than the constant wet blanket of buying ever one more piece of software before the program stops working every 2 minutes or so. ;)
Rohit, take a look at a sample of what was decoded from ACARS ( Aircraft Communications Addressing & Reporting System) with this program on 11.348 at 8.26 UTC:
----------------------------------------------------------[23/07/2009 09:26]
[MPDU 08:26:19 AIR 9A SLOT 1 300 BPS ]
Nr LPDUs = 1 Ground station ID CANARIAS - SPAIN NOT SYNCHED
Aircraft ID 9A
Slots Requested medium = 0 Low = 0
Max Bit rate 1800 bps U(R) = 0 UR(R)vect = 0
[LPDU UNNUMBERED DATA FM AIR 9A TO GND]
[HFNPDU PERFORMANCE]
08:26:12 UTC Flight ID = AT0787 LAT 36 56 11 N LON 4 25 40 W
Performance version 1
Flight Leg 189
GS CANARIAS - SPAIN
SYNCHED TO UTC
Frequency 11348.0(KHz)
Previous Leg lost count 9
Current Leg lost count 0
Previous Leg Number of sec disabled 4836
Current Leg Number of sec disabled 0
Number of MPDUS received O.K
1800 bps = 0
1200 bps = 0
600 bps = 33
300 bps = 171
Number of MPDUS received in Error
1800 bps = 0
1200 bps = 0
600 bps = 5
300 bps = 3
Number of Squitters received O.K = 224
Number of Squitters received in Error = 2
Number of MPDUS transmitted
1800 bps = 0
1200 bps = 1
600 bps = 0
300 bps = 23
Number of MPDUS received first time
1800 bps = 0
1200 bps = 1
600 bps = 0
300 bps = 22
Reason for last frequency change = No Change Since Last PD HFNPDU
Thanks for the ideas re. digimodes Alan, now our mission is to find el-freebo programmes ;)
73
Tim
Message from oldtimer at Thursday, 23-Jul-09 11:27:17 GMT
Tim,
http://users.otenet.gr/~aviation/HFDL/HFDL.htm
This page contains a link to an unsupported (free) version of PC-HFDL.
Not as fancy as the latest version, but should do the same job.
Regards
Alan
http://users.otenet.gr/~aviation/HFDL/HFDL.htm
This page contains a link to an unsupported (free) version of PC-HFDL.
Not as fancy as the latest version, but should do the same job.
Regards
Alan
Message from Calico at Thursday, 23-Jul-09 13:20:28 GMT
Alan thanks for that, will check it out.
Used to be the hardware companies that milked us nicely when it came to radios, now each licence for a piece of radio-software plucks quite a few feathers at a time, too, nice!
Forgot to mention for Rohit (gypsy) that most utility transmissions use the Upper Side Band, including Navtex, Meteo Fax, HF Acars, etc. I usually go down by 1.7 k/c to resolve Navtex and 1.9 k/c for Fax, see something I had written last year about Hamburg Meteo DDK3 on 7878.1 kHz USB at: http://www.globaltuners.com/forum/thread.php?tid=98
Would be an ommission not to mention a very good program for PSK, DigiPan. Run it, and watch a bunch of PSK transmissions simultaneously decoded, pretty cool,we can claim to be multitasking to our other halves, wink !
That's for now
73 de Calico/Tim
Used to be the hardware companies that milked us nicely when it came to radios, now each licence for a piece of radio-software plucks quite a few feathers at a time, too, nice!
Forgot to mention for Rohit (gypsy) that most utility transmissions use the Upper Side Band, including Navtex, Meteo Fax, HF Acars, etc. I usually go down by 1.7 k/c to resolve Navtex and 1.9 k/c for Fax, see something I had written last year about Hamburg Meteo DDK3 on 7878.1 kHz USB at: http://www.globaltuners.com/forum/thread.php?tid=98
Would be an ommission not to mention a very good program for PSK, DigiPan. Run it, and watch a bunch of PSK transmissions simultaneously decoded, pretty cool,we can claim to be multitasking to our other halves, wink !
That's for now
73 de Calico/Tim
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